Internet finance: encouraging innovation but requiring "smart regulation"

At the 2014 China (Shenzhen) IT Leaders Summit, Wu Ying, Chairman of Digital China Federation, Zhu Yunlai, CEO of CICC, Li Xiaojia, CEO of Hong Kong Exchanges and Clearing Group, and Ding, Managing Director of GSR Ventures Jian jointly participated in the debate entitled "Internet Finance and Financial Internet".

Ding Jian used the analogy of a child accidentally hitting an adult's sore spot, which happened to be a tumor, and regarded the innovation of Internet finance as an impact on traditional banks. Although it may have hurt the bank, it was actually discovered Its lesions, the impetus for its change.

Li Xiaojia proposed to consider different aspects such as system security, supervision, interests, Internet financial infrastructure, etc., and the supervision of Internet finance should be "well-known, reasonable, and prudent." The regulators need to clarify that the rationale for regulation is systemic financial security, and the competition between banks and Internet companies needs to be open and aboveboard, and all these regulations and competitions must not damage the hard-built Internet financial infrastructure.

Wu Ying believes that the four major banks are suspected of joining forces to kill competitors, suspected of monopoly, and even "sued".

Zhu Yunlai emphasized the backwardness of the financial system, which requires both reform and security.

The following is a transcript of the dialogue:

Liu Erfei: Now the Internet industry has discovered It is very important to cross the border. Academicians can speak stand-up comics, those who engage in the Internet can do finance, and those who are financial can do the Internet. I hope that our four guests can be both academic and entertaining. It can also bring you some enlightenment on the current financial Internet problems.

Before I introduce the four guests, let me outline the issues I want to talk about today. In the high-end forums last year and the year before, we are asking the next big wave of Internet impact, which industries will be disrupted? Today the wave is over our heads, right under our feet, and one of the most important industries to be disrupted is finance. And in the recent media in the financial industry, we have also seen that Ali Finance PKs the four major state-owned banks. In the PK process, there seems to be a certain consensus, and we will not discuss the consensus today.

First, the Internet of Finance is an unstoppable trend. You either participated in this revolution or you were revolutionized. This is the consensus of all regulators and governments, including the objects being revolutionized and the participants in the revolution. So this is not discussed today.

Second, finance is a high-risk industry, and financial Internet innovation needs to be stable and regulated. There is also a certain consensus on this. The key issues to be discussed today are how to ensure safety on the premise of encouraging innovation, and how to strengthen supervision without obliterating innovation. This is the question that everyone here today has to face. And we hope that there will be some collision of ideas, so that there will be some enlightenment for both the guests and the media.

Let me introduce. The first person on my left is Wu Ying. Does Wu Ying need no introduction? He is the founder of our Digital China Federation and the chairman of this conference for several years in a row. On his left is Zhu Yunlai, who is also a business card and chairman of CICC. And very experienced in the financial world. Not to mention Li Xiaojia, he is the CEO of the Hong Kong Stock Exchange. Ding Jian on the left is also engaged in finance and Internet, and has founded several IT companies. Including AsiaInfo.

There is another person who needs to introduce Ding Jian. He is a director of Baidu, and he has knowledge in it. Because after the advent of the financial Internet this time, the three giants who used to be in peace with each other have seen that this high-end dialogue is not the same as in previous years. In previous years, everyone saw Ma Huateng, Ma Yun, and Li Yanhong. When the three are in peace, they can share the stage dialogue.

This time everyone may be a little disappointed that the Big Three are not there. Because of this wave of the Internet revolution, these three people are firstly sensitive, and secondly, they may be busy seizing favorable terrain and have no time to come. So the protagonist of our big drama is actually not there. But there is a saying in China that bystanders are clear. These people are both stakeholders and bystanders. Hope this conversation will be great. If wonderful is the ability of the four here, not wonderful is my incompetence of the host. Now I start asking questions.

First of all, everyone spends 5 minutes talking about your views on the financial Internet, aiming at the current four major state-owned banks PK Ali. Starting with Ding Jian, because Baidu has a conflict of interest with Ali, I consider whether he is on Robin Li's side.

Ding Jian: Thank you! I'm in finance, I'm inextricably linked with the bank, and I sit on the board of directors of Baidu. Do you think it's normal to stand on the bank's side? Before I talk about my opinion, let me tell a little story. A friend of mine told me a story one day. He once took his children, about 7 or 8 years old, to a friend's house to play. This child is very naughty, and the male owner likes children, so the two of them fight each other. Once the child hit his stomach, he noticed that his friend pressed his stomach tightly and frowned, and he immediately reprimanded the child for being so indifferent. Turning around and asking his friend, why does it hurt when such a small child hits you, he said that I have been in pain in this place for the past two days. He said you should go check it out. Fortunately, he found out that the tumor was at an early stage, and he avoided a vicious accident.

I saw a signed article yesterday morning, and I made some preparations to participate in this forum. The signed article is a signed article of a middle-level cadre who has worked in the head office of one of the four major banks for 20 years. Since Alipay's yield is higher than bank deposits and wealth management products, it is attractive to bank depositors, and Alipay has about 90% of the deposit back to the bank by agreement deposit, so for banks, the money deposited by Alipay is actually It is a deposit taken by Alipay with high interest rates.

Alipay was originally a group purchase. It turned the 0.3% interest deposit of ordinary people into 6%. I think it is very good. Immediately after another article said that Yu’e Bao is a vampire, I was unhappy when I heard it. It seemed to be scolding us ordinary people as vampires. It should have been 0.3, but it turned out to be 6%. We become vampires. How do I feel so unhappy. I was even more nervous when he explained why.

I feel that this matter is not a problem with Alipay, Yu'ebao and the bank, and I think of my friend's story. The 7- and 8-year-old Yu’ebao boy punched the 20- and 30-year-old state-owned bank’s waist, causing him to jump in pain. It means that you hit someone's possible tumor. The seriousness of this problem is far more serious than this debate between Alipay and him, but it forces us to realize that our current distorted financial system is too fragile to tolerate a small punch from a child.

In other words, our financial system may really come to a time when we must accelerate reform to get out of the crisis. On the other hand, why do I say vampires, I am very unhappy. How can I figure out why I have been paying for this tumor as a depositor of ordinary people's savings for so many years.

I only got 0.3% when I could get 5% interest and I'm paying for this twisted banking system. How do I feel that this matter is no longer a problem for Taobao, Jack Ma, and Ali to PK with the banking system. I think standing in the regulatory authorities, standing in the National People's Congress and the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, and even our media and ordinary people should take advantage of this incident to see what problems are reflected behind it. Is there any tumor in our financial system?

I hope that this matter can really let us not say that through this matter, we can get the Chinese banking system out of the crisis and correct our own problems, and then don't let the common people, private enterprises, and the Chinese economy be affected by this. This kind of monopoly pays the bill, rather than turning the contradiction to the point that Internet finance is messing with us, which is a second-tier tactical issue. Many experts will discuss it later.

I really realized from their article that I think the seriousness of this problem should lie in the real financial institutions, but that we should let the Internet industry give us, just like the Internet industry to many other industries The impact is the same, it can really wake up the sleeping lion of the bank, just like the mobile and telecommunications are really active when they wake up, I hope the bank can also be active.

Second point, in turn, it also reminds Internet companies including Alibaba that in the future industrial Internet era, they should try their best to improve China's Internet industry with a win-win cooperation. Instead of pulling the knife at every turn. Such an attitude will be desperately countered by competitors.

I especially agree with what Director Wu Hao and several other leaders said just now. When dealing with the Internet industry and when Internet companies enter many other industries, we should understand, tolerate and support these industries from an industrial point of view, not because of They may not understand the rules of our bank, they may do something a little out of line, and they may hit the temple at every turn to make him faint or completely suffocate, I just hope that our attitude on this matter should be such an attitude . It is to ask the big four banks and regulatory agencies to raise their hands and give Internet companies more breathing opportunities. Thank you!

Liu Erfei: Ding Jian's point of view is not what I expected. It seems that he is basically on the side of Internet finance. But he didn't answer a question, my question was that there should be a balance between regulation and encouragement of innovation. Xiaojia is both a regulator and an operator. This is a special form of the Hong Kong Stock Exchange, which is only the case on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange. The New York Stock Exchange has changed that. The regulator function is gradually weakening, and you should find this balance the easiest. I hope Xiaojia can talk about this understanding.

Li Xiaojia: Originally, I was a bit of a dog on this stage and I was nosy. Basically nothing happened to us. Originally, Ma Yun was not here, so I was relieved, but in the end the discussion had to do with this matter. According to the way you hosted Erfei, there seems to be another which side you are standing on and which side am I standing on, which is quite scary.

Try it. This happened so suddenly that if I had known about it, I might not have attended this forum. But when I see this, I feel like it seems to be a perfect storm. Almost the development of China's banking industry, the development of China's Internet, and the process of China's economic reform seem to have come to this point. There are many things that you don't want to do or things that are more difficult to do, things you don't want to think about. , all of a sudden through this storm unfolded in front of us, all of a sudden sharpened many problems.

We always talk about risk and innovation, but we actually want to know what risk is? What exactly is innovation? We talk about the risk of opening an account and the risk of customers losing money. Is it the right place to take some measures against Alipay and third-party payment with these risks? Is it necessary to separate the core and the smoke in this? In this big game, we must actually simplify it in the middle of this game.

Actually, if you look at the topic of discussion between finance and the Internet and today, you can probably look at it from four levels.

First, it is a financial Internet ecosystem, payment and credit. This is the most important payment system at the grassroots level. After so many years, the traditional banks have basically not done this, and the services of small and medium-sized enterprises have not been in place. Therefore, this large ecological environment has all come out, almost completely by innovation. This will make great contributions and great achievements to China's economic development in the future.

The second level is the pattern of the Internet, other new economies, and the interests of the existing financial system.

The third level is the level of safety and risk of financial institutions themselves. The highest level is the risk of our entire financial system. In such a big pyramid, let’s analyze this perfect storm. At which link and at which level there are major conflicts and major needs for coordination. In the end, everyone must climb down when they climb to the top of the mountain. There is a risk in the financial system, and there is absolute supervision. However, to stifle such a large-scale innovation of the whole people, firstly, it cannot be killed, and secondly, the loss is very large.

Looking at these four levels, the bottom level is mainly built by the Internet. Now that the Internet has been able to discuss the distribution of benefits on the second level with banks. Now no one talks about the security of the bank itself, let alone the security of the financial system. It is all about customer security, information security, payment security and insurance security at the underlying level. There may be confusion among the concepts of these things, we will talk about it later.

Liu Erfei: Now the four major banks PK Ali, the official statement of the four major banks, Ali is our partner, we support the development of Internet finance, we only care about security issues, they are our very good partners. Ali's statement is the same. We are very willing to cooperate with the four major state-owned banks. We cooperate with all financial institutions. We are not eating your cheese, we are creating new value and introducing efficiency into the financial system. Ding Jian will concretize it after a while, and the height of the station will be lowered. Xiaojia can also talk about any good ideas. Zhu Yun came to talk to you.

Zhu Yunlai: The PK you mentioned shows that everyone is very concerned now. It should be said that this is a new thing, it is also an attempt and an exploration, and obviously it has also caused some relatively fierce competition. In my personal opinion, the technology of the Internet should be said to be the most important technological development in recent years, and the potential it brings is also very huge. Everyone heard it in the morning meeting. On the other hand, finance is a very important pillar system in social life. How the system of this system forms its functions, how to ensure its efficiency, and how to ensure safety is also a very core system.

Now this new attempt has caused some problems in the innovation of the two systems. Just now, Xiaojia has made a rough description of the framework of the problem. From the most basic information security, the direct security of customers to the stability and security of the entire financial system, the management of liquidity also poses many new challenges.

I think we should take an open mind and take a serious look at this system. For example, the issues of security and interest rates just mentioned, just like physics has a physical law, and finance has a financial law, which should be fully considered. How to fully function the Internet.

An essential feature of the Internet is the rapid availability of information transmission systems, and its ability to store and process large amounts of data. Internet collection data mining, behavioral analysis, providing scientific basis for financial services activities, these are all very beneficial developments.

But on the other hand, such as the interest rate issue just mentioned, should it be 3 or 6, and what are the principles of 3% and 6%? In addition, after the entire financial system faces new challenges, whether the efficiency of the bank in the past is sufficient, and whether its method is effective. Also, where is the real value of basic investment banks and brokerages' services, can they be replaced by Internet financial providers with very effective services, or can they have the value of professional financial services?

These all take time. As for this process, as long as there is fair market competition and as long as the security of the system is not violated, every service provider should have a fair chance to compete.

Liu Erfei: Just now, Ding Jian made a more vivid metaphor. A 9-year-old child hit the stomach of a 20-year-old adult. It happened to hit the tumor and it was very painful. Adults in their 20s have a stronger rebound. The first is that the person needs medical treatment. This is not the topic of discussion today. Whether the fight is good or not, is it time to stop after the fight? this is a problem. Let's go down and talk. Do you agree with Ding Jian?

Zhu Yunlai: This is quite dramatic. The key is that if it really hurts, why it hurts is also worth analyzing. It's also a good thing for adults. The emergence of new phenomena should be viewed with such a mindset. On the other hand, we need a systematic analysis of what is wrong with these disputes. At present, I feel that some basic concepts are still relatively vague.

Like a physical system, it has certain basic laws. We should discuss it in the correct framework on the premise of understanding the basic laws. It will produce better results and be very good for reform and development. Effect. In general, China's financial system has low efficiency and incomplete system construction, and is prone to some major potential risks. Through this discussion, we should actively explore how to build a more efficient, complete and holistic financial system. Provide effective tools for economic development services.

Li Xiaojia: If you stand from an adult's point of view, it is also a saying that you just hit the pain here. But from the perspective of an adult, I would say that is not the case. You are 9 years old, but you are young, but you recruited 100 9-year-old children, and a group of children came over. I can't fight at the age of 40.

Liu Erfei: What kind of risks can a group of children pose? You will talk about this next time.

Wu Ying: Many listeners may not know the difference between financial Internet and Internet finance. Internet finance is the Internet engaged in finance. Bankers call the financial Internet, which is the introduction of Internet means by bankers to provide financial services. This is everyone's definition, and many people don't understand this definition. The core difference is a big difference in thinking.

What is Internet thinking? Recently, a big man publicly spoke out against the idea of Internet thinking. What is Internet Thinking? Isn't Internet thinking just innovation? Our traditional enterprises will also innovate. Lei Jun used the concept of Internet thinking, four standards, focus, extreme, fast, word of mouth.

Innovation is one of the most basic necessary conditions for Internet companies. Just like me, I have advantages. What are the advantages? I will eat. What will you eat? Is not this nonsensical. Lei Jun said that Internet companies are winner-take-all. In Internet finance, I personally think that there are several large companies because the service group is too large.

As for what Liu Erfei mentioned about the four state-owned banks' simultaneous action against Alipay, I am much more fierce than them, and I think the four major banks should be prosecuted. The Ministry of Commerce has the Anti-Monopoly Department, the four major banks, etc., and the four companies are shooting at the same time. I believe you haven't discussed it. How can there be such a coincidence.

50,000 has been reduced to 5,000. There is a slightly different agricultural bank, but they are all the same. Alipay has been in use for 9 years. He is really a very young child, but what is the interesting thing he has done? This is not a strategic product for him at all. Alipay put 5,000 yuan there, and the rest was bought for 3,000 yuan, and there was 2,000 yuan with no interest or too low interest. Our current interest rate is 0.35%. Is the starting point of more interest wrong? But how to generate this 6% interest? What did I tell you? The 72 rule, with 1% interest and compound interest, it will take you 72 years to double the money you save. If you save 1 yuan, 1% interest will double in 72 years. If the interest rate is 3%, it will double in 24 years. 6% interest, doubled in 12 years. People are living longer and longer.

It is very possible to live to the age of 81. If you save 10,000 yuan, the interest of 0.35 will double in 205 years. None of us can live to be 205 years old. Unless you are you from the stars. If it is Yu’ebao’s 6% interest, which will be turned over every 12 years, what is the concept after 60 years? This 10,000 becomes 450,000 yuan. I have to save 10,000 yuan a year, and when I am 81 years old, I will be dependable and I will not have to trouble my children. Maybe the two of you will argue that if you are not a current deposit, how can you earn 6%.

Everyone is in demand deposits, and the monthly expenses can be calculated normally, and the remaining balance should be returned to the highest interest rate. 6% is already very high, for ordinary people. But for real estate companies, they have to pay 15%, 18%, 25% interest for a project. And why are the four of you joining forces? Aren't you facing the Central Committee? Premier Li Keqiang talked about supporting the Internet economy.

The four major banks also said that we are partners and he cannot make political mistakes. You said it was safe, but you allowed him to do it three years ago. He said that it was not for Yu'e Bao, but to reduce customer risks. How about before? How many mistakes have there been in the past? You have to speak with data. Have we lost something here? Raise your hand. I'm not Jack Ma's trustee. Alipay said you dare to pay, I dare to pay.

Liu Erfei: Wu Ying, do you have any shares in Alipay?

Wu Ying: No. I was their investor, but it sold out in 2007. There is absolutely no problem with each bank making its own decisions. It is too bad to do it jointly. I am such a point of view, welcome PK.

Ding Jian: Taking advantage of Wu Ying's question, I didn't believe it was a joint venture. More likely an administrative order or something. Consider what Xiaojia just said about financial security and so on. As soon as I wrote this article, I felt really strange. He said that setting the limit is entirely a commercial act. If the banking business rules are set unreasonably, depositors can vote with their feet or change banks. This is entirely a commercial act, and there is no administrative power conspiracy theory.

He believes this is commercial practice. I really want to agree with Wu Ying's judgment just now. If the four major banks join forces to do a business act, if in the United States or in Hong Kong, in the case of business competition, 80% and 90% of the market will do one thing at the same time and restrict their opponents, I don't know if this is a business. an illegal act. I've seen movies where someone is going to jail for this kind of behavior. This is a very serious offense. If it is a purely commercial activity, there is no administrative order, and four banks account for 80%, if there are four banks in the United States and Hong Kong to do this, what will be done?

Li Xiaojia: If it weren't for these four companies, if it were JP Morgan, etc., if it was in the 100, maybe there might be a problem in the United States. But that doesn't answer your question. How could you make me say something like that on this occasion.

Ding Jian: I understand.

Li Xiaojia: And it is very clear that the Bank of America does not have a common shareholder, and the shareholders are all of them. These four are state-owned banks. All banks in the United States, people save money, and there is no other than the federal deposit insurance to insure you. Fall down and fall down. It is hard for us to imagine that the four of us can fail. It's you if this makes this question interesting.

Ding Jian: Since Xiao Jia went to Hong Kong, he has become more and more diplomatic. I feel good. When Xiao Jia told that story just now, it reminded me of something. He said that he had summoned many 6-year-olds to beat them. I remembered that Li Yue, from China Mobile, would say something at European Telecom some time ago, and he was asked how he thought about the threat of WeChat and Internet companies to him. He

said I was a professional judo practitioner and they were amateurs. You ask them if they go one by one or together. This is a confident answer. I think today's bank, frankly all licenses are controlled, how difficult it is to enter, can it attract 100 6-year-old children? At most, pull tents in front of his house, do some group buying, what else can you do? There is simply no need to take such a serious approach to them. There is a tumor, go home and see a doctor. But at the same time show mercy to the children. This is my idea.

Liu Erfei: Although the situation is friendly on the surface, there is still a game in secret. If it is not handled properly, war will definitely break out once it breaks out. We are all reluctant to see such a situation arise, and we only hope that the contradiction can be resolved in a favorable way. Talking about why the four major banks have rebounded strongly, you can say if the guests have ideas. On the other hand, I also listen to everyone's suggestions on how to resolve this contradiction smoothly, which not only encourages the innovation and development of the Internet, but also ensures security.

This security has four levels of security, including customer security, and financial system security. How can we come up with a solution that allows ordinary people in our society to add several giants in the innovative industry, plus other tiny Internet finance Businesses are all paying attention, including solutions acceptable to the government and regulatory authorities. I want to hear what everyone has to say. Xiaojia, you say it first.

Li Xiaojia: What is the problem now? Everyone is looking for the moral high ground. When fighting a war, whether to win or not to win, the key is who is the teacher of justice, and only the teacher of justice can win. The problem now is that I think everyone is in the wrong place to be a teacher of justice or a moral high ground. Now the moral high ground of the big banking system is at the bottom level, people are safe or not, what to do if you steal it, and our bank is subject to certain supervision, we have reserves for that money, if you don’t have reserves, you count Not counting loans.

Then the problem was identified from the payment level, and then the payment was made. Speaking of this place like this, the common people will think that it is to be safe, and the money cannot be transferred by thieves. This one is easy to find the moral high ground. It is also easy to find the moral high ground here, and it is at the second level to find the moral high ground. Our payment system is fully established, and hundreds of millions of people rely on it. It is very convenient. It is very painful for you to forcefully take it away from the people. This moral high ground is natural. Many commentators have sought the moral high ground in the division of interests. That is why the bank can have 6.6% also comes from the system. The banking system can give 6% to everyone, indicating that there is money to be taken out. It is easy to find the moral high ground at the level of interest.

I personally feel that these moral high grounds are all wrong, and the common people don't understand, and things are getting more and more confusing. It stands to reason that the underlying grass-roots system has been built, no matter how many faults, old things have so many faults. There is also a lot of fraud in securities, and it cannot be stopped just because there is fraud. You shouldn't start at this level. But you let the bank start from the interests, that is untenable. This time, I feel that I can return to the third level generously, even close to the fourth level. What concept?

The Chinese banking system is actually very large and very successful, but there are many challenges and problems. There are only two banks, one is the liability and the other is the asset. Assets are loans that are invested. But today's banking reform has not yet been in place, and lending is a relatively long-term thing. The assets here do not have a large capital market, there is no large bond market, and there is no large other market that can allow you to have high liquidity in assets. When the liquidity in assets is almost still poor, The reason why our banking system is so sound today is that our liabilities are relatively safe and stable.

That is, the common people put their money in it, and the less the interest, the less. Better than keeping it in a closet at home. But today banks can stand up and say that with products like Yu’ebao, you suddenly make half of the balance sheet liabilities of the banking system very liquid, and liquidity is a risk. Once the flow here, once the money is not available here, it is a risk. It is equivalent to setting up a collective labor union to discuss with other banks for a better price.

Through this process, the bank that took the money is at risk, and his liabilities have been reduced, which is a big problem. The bank that puts the money in, the bank has extra costs, and the capital aspect increases the risk. Banks should be able to confidently say that there are risks in this area, and how can this product manage the risks. This question is not clear to everyone, and it is a question that makes everyone have confidence in the bank.

At the same time, in terms of payment, there is a teacher of justice underneath, serving the real economy, which is very good. And China's credit system can't get up without it. Banks are at risk if they do not fully recognize the sudden increase in liquidity in bank liabilities and assets cannot be matched. I just said that a 9-year-old child has a lot of 6-year-old children. Four adults, originally 100 children were in the kindergarten, and everyone was very orderly, but suddenly a child came along, we didn't listen to him, let's do that.

There might be a problem with a litter of kids doing this. I just hope that both sides must see where the core interests of the other side lie, and stop talking about it. Where are the core interests, don't touch the core interests. Only in this way can we ordinary people and our banking system ultimately benefit.

Liu Erfei: Let me summarize what Xiao Jia said. Xiao Jia said more profoundly. I say in plain language that Internet finance does things that banks can't do or don't want to do. This bank is not against it. If he goes a little further and grabs a little money from the bank, it doesn't affect his fundamental interests, and the bank can barely tolerate it. Now the bank feels that what you are doing affects its fundamental interests, especially if it can be said that it affects the financial security of the country. At this time, it is about to take action, and the regulatory authorities will also take action.

This balance is at the heart of our discussion today, and at the heart of the solution. How to use the financial Internet is mainly to serve small and medium-sized enterprises and ordinary people, create value for them, and banks will benefit. Then go to the banking system to make an impact, and push banks to constantly discover their own problems, recognize their own problems, and innovate and reform. This is very important. At the same time do not touch the bottom line. This is what I heard from Xiaojia and translated it.

Zhu Yunlai: This is still a very important system issue. In order to achieve the progress you mentioned, we should start with a systematic analysis, and we must have a systematic system design and system construction for these problems. There are not a lot of lectures now saying that there is a top-level design, this is definitely necessary. In addition, a system design must be added.

Because the top layer is viewed from the top system, but every part of the whole, from the top to the bottom, the grassroots, if these important systems and elements are not there, it is not easy for your system to be efficient and secure. of. There are times when both sides of the argument seek a more favorable argument. There is also a basic principle. For example, when the bank absorbs deposits, why does the bank give you 6%?

The bank is not a fairy. He can't make money. He wants to lend the money to creative enterprises and enterprises that can create profitability. But it takes time for a company to make money and create money when it gets this money. You can't give me money today, and I can give you back right away. In addition, no enterprise can say that I accept a loan from a bank, and the premise of this bank loan is that I can repay it at any time. You generally need a time.

Lend me a year, even if you lend me three months, depending on the purpose, some money may be lent to me for three, five, ten, or twenty years. may arise. No one pays special attention to this issue, that is, how did the so-called 6% interest rate come from? How did 3% come about? Overdue deposits cannot and should not have such high benefits. Because making money takes time, there must be a deadline. So if you have a new product and these structural issues are not resolved, it may seem to short-circuit the system.

In addition, the biggest feature of Internet finance now is that people don't realize that he is a person who can be everywhere, everywhere, at any time, anywhere, and any number of people may have something happen at the same time, for example Say withdrawal. For example, why should the payment system and the accounting system have a limit? The Internet is easily 500 million or 1 billion customers, 10,000 for one person, and 1 trillion for 100 million people, which can happen at the same time. There is often a financial point in time, and once this point occurs, everyone behaves in the same way. 500 million customers tend to behave in the same direction, and this is how many trillions impact the system.

No system can handle this, at least the current systems are very difficult to handle. Including the Internet system cannot be completely independent, and it has to interface with the traditional banking system. In the traditional banking system, its account payment and delivery all require physical processing and time. If this does not match, we can make a system that is very insecure.

Liu Erfei: I use Ding Jian's metaphor to summarize Zhu Yunlai's words, which may not be right. Because a 9-year-old child accidentally hit the heart of a patient with a heart attack, the life of the heart patient was threatened. And if there is a problem with one person, the whole system may have a problem. Therefore, although some products are beneficial to ordinary people, they may not be suitable in today's financial environment, and some compromises may be required.

I am afraid that such a profound truth cannot be summed up accurately. We have limited time, this is a big problem, and there is a small topic to discuss below. Can you summarize your thoughts in a few words, if you propose a solution, how can this contradiction be resolved so that small conflicts do not turn into wars? Everyone gave Jack Ma and the supervisors of the big four state-owned banks a suggestion in a few sentences.

Ding Jian: I agree with this punch, and it did hit some vital points. As a state-owned bank, it is normal and appropriate to do some resistance. In terms of the regulatory system, what should be done. I think in the current situation, my biggest worry is that someone uses an excessive counterattack, which will have two consequences. One is to cover up his illness. In fact, I am fine, he tossed me.

Second, too much kills a 7-year-old in the cradle. It's just that this punch is too hard. I think everyone can be calm about the solution. If Yu’ebao really hurts a certain financial system in a certain way, the withdrawal that should be withdrawn, the withdrawal that should not be done, the delay that should be done, and the reduction that should be reduced. But for Alipay, with so many accounts and so many netizens, if you are too ruthless at once, you can put tens of thousands of people in each person, but now it is only 10,000 a year. After buying two mobile phones, you can't buy anything for a year. . This will have a great impact on the real economy and on ordinary users.

This is just an excuse to beat you to death. I don't know if that is the case. I hope everyone slows down and can restore Alipay's accounts to the way they were in the past, or you can add some more restrictions as appropriate, but in turn, Alipay and Ali can also understand more about the pain points of banks in terms of Yu'ebao products. And understand the problems of the financial system. Help him or give him time to cure this tumor. Thanks!

Wu Ying: Ding Jian cited the example of a telecom operator. We know that WeChat is developing very fast, and now there are nearly 800 million users. We invested in a company that did SMS last year, and we were worried that the rise of WeChat would have a greater impact on SMS companies. The result did not happen. Because of their own needs, a large number of text messages from people and people were replaced by WeChat, but the regular notification channels during the two sessions were still sent by text messages, because there was a 99.99% guarantee of delivery. WeChat is based on IP. Although it can achieve a high delivery rate of 98% and 99%, if you are waiting for money to save your life in financial payment, if the real-time confirmation code is sent from the WeChat channel and is not received, it may be very difficult. One important thing cannot be resolved. Might be a life saver.

The security of SMS is indeed very high, and it needs to be confirmed by SMS. In banking and financial services, Internet thinking is very important and is done with user concepts. In fact, it should be done at a young age, starting from less than 50,000 to 100,000 yuan, and financial services of several million to tens of millions should be done by big banks. Because that set of risk control is very reasonable. He has some other methods. When we evaluate a company, we don’t need to make any mortgage. After analyzing Weibo, WeChat, salary group, and his usual behavior, we can loan him 100,000 yuan in one second. The chances of not paying back are very low.

So there are many, many things that Internet finance can do. The United States now has a new approach to insurance ratings. In fact, if you are using mobile Internet, everyone has a smartphone, and you are accustomed to speeding frequently, so you should charge a higher premium. If you imagine many, many applications, you can do it. Like Xiaojia said, at the first level, the payment industry is huge, with a GDP of 57 trillion and a transaction volume of 2300 trillion last year, so each transaction is a fraction of a percent. The vast majority of the payments industry loses money.

Liu Erfei: Ding Jian and Wu Ying are very clear-cut. On this issue, Xiaojia and Yunlai, what do you think about resolving the crisis?

Li Xiaojia: Let's see if I can summarize my thoughts in these few sentences. I think the top two levels should be well-known, especially state-owned banks and regulators. They should discuss this matter in a clear and correct name and what methods should be adopted to manage this matter. Just to be famous. If the final motive and final consideration of this thing is to see if it can avoid potential system risks in the future, if so, let’s say it generously, don’t leave the security issues at the bottom level, these security issues are easy to solve question. Otherwise, if the teacher is unknown, these problems will not be solved easily. It is best to be famous at the top. At the middle level, the pattern of interests, if we were to use the same words, would be justified. When speaking on both sides, you should speak out rationally. We all know that banks are highly profitable.

No one wants to say that if our payment system keeps talking about this, it will be easy for everyone to find other things after being under a lot of pressure. On the issue of speaking out, he said that you are now a bank or a channel? If you are a channel, you don't charge money, you don't make decisions, just pass the money. But the decision itself may be related to interests or risks or benefits. If you want high returns, you must move to a slightly higher risk place. At the middle level, the voice of the bank is also reasonable, that is, what you want to do, the regulator must think clearly, whether it should be regarded as channel supervision or quasi-bank supervision. To be a quasi-bank is to wear a series of handcuffs.

In the end, the most important thing below, originally had nothing to do with this matter. This place has some restraints. It must be restrained. Don't kill such a good thing. The top is famous, the middle is reasonable, and the bottom is restrained. Speak generously. If you want to have a festival, you must leave benefits to the common people. It is safe, the competition is fair, and the common people are benefited.

Liu Erfei: Support innovation, don't touch the bottom line. Zhu Yun came to see you.

Zhu Yunlai: I think issues like this need a systematic discussion and analysis. To ensure the security of the system, there is a fair competition, and all parties have the opportunity to express their wishes. There is a clear statement on what kind of practice this system design should be, and it has always been involved in basic areas such as public policy.

Liu Erfei: I just talked about the game between Internet companies and financial companies. Another issue we don't have time to talk about now is the game between the three BAT companies. Wu Ying has the most say. You assume that the game between Internet finance and the banking system will land safely in the next few years, and a war between the three seems inevitable. What is your opinion on the competition of these three companies in the financial industry and the competition in the Internet industry in the future? Who will win, who will lose or win?

Wu Ying: I think there must be a battle between these companies, and it has already begun. The first fat is not fat, the first fat must be Ali. His financial layout, finance is indeed a very complicated thing. The influence of the whole country's economy and even the global economy is always involved, which is why Ma Yun did not do this in Ali Finance after his retirement at all in the listing system. Therefore, after Ali was listed, due to the VIE structure of the year, a large part of Alipay's income rights was to be obtained by Ali Group. With Internet finance, it is possible that his market value will surpass that of Tencent within two or three years after it goes public.

But Tencent has a good chance of catching up, because WeChat, a New Year's red envelope, is a complete victory, and Jack Ma himself admits that it is a complete victory. There is a dark horse that many people are not optimistic about. Many people think that Tencent has lost in this war. Because he has no layout in e-commerce and mobile terminals. Baidu is very, very important. The purpose of searching on the mobile Internet is to complete transactions, which is completely different from ordinary searches for information. Take a look at his layout, Baidu has a lot of traffic, and there is a Baidu map. The others are still difficult to follow. Although Ali also acquired Gaode Map. I think all three of them have a chance here.

In fact, Baidu's stock price has risen so much, and he has not done anything too prominent. Many things can be followed by Google. Coupled with Google's withdrawal from the Chinese market, the stamina brought to him is also very large, and the good show is still to come. Internet finance and mobile Internet have just begun, and the exciting battle is behind, and the beneficiaries are our consumers. I believe they are all relatively mature competitors, and I think the result of this competition is really good for the common people and consumers. If some banks are really conscious and use Internet thinking, it is likely that a small bank will replace the four major banks. Thanks!

Liu Erfei: Ali gets fat first, Tencent gets fat later, and Baidu gets fat too.

Ding Jian: Let me clarify first that I, the director, cannot say anything on behalf of Baidu. Everyone knows my personality, probably because I was a science student when I was young, and the pursuit of truth and truth is far more important than money. I prefer to be objective. Third, I have a lot of cooperation with Jack Ma and Tencent. We cooperate with Tencent for Didi Taxi. There is no eternal rivalry, no eternal enemy in this matter. Back to the question of BAT. I want to talk about three principles: First, the Internet is still very early. In the early stages, the pace of disruption in this field is getting faster and faster, and there is no way to predict when. Someone just asked when Xiaomi will be able to enter the three camps. At that time, it was also said that Sina was one of them, and it should be BATS because of his Weibo. But not so much now. Two days ago, someone said that BAT is wrong, it should be AT, and B has already been out. There was something wrong with Ma Yun, saying that AT is not right, so there is only T. This reflects the pace of change in this industry. Being fat now does not mean being fat in the future, and those who are fat now may not be able to maintain it.

I would like to remind everyone to pay attention in two directions. Because this is a big disruptive thing in BAT or other fields in the future. One is one of today's topics, the Industrial Internet. The personal consumption market has been the most important wealth generator in the development of the entire Internet for so many years. All of us have made investments, and we know that the US ecosystem knows that a dollar spent by consumers often means that there may be 10, 20 yuan or even more in the industry market.

Therefore, the opportunities in the industrial Internet era will be far greater than that of consumers. There may be companies of the size of BAT in every industry. BAT may not be the topic of discussion for a few years in the future. This is a direction that everyone wants to pay attention to. The second concern is that it is actually very important to observe where the United States is investing and where the government is leading. How dissatisfied we are with him in this country, but one thing that must not be ignored is the forward-looking, huge investment in strategy and talents in this area.

The four of us are modern, and he's already talking about the high speed of information. What is he talking about today? One of the hottest areas that has been talked about recently is the research on artificial intelligence and the principles of the mind. Once this breakthrough occurs, it will be another big qualitative change. When we talk about big data today, we are still on the very superficial surface of big data. Whether you look at Microsoft, Google, or the U.S. government, they have invested a lot in the analysis of big data and computer intelligence. I tend to think that he said that in ten or twenty years, the decomposition line between the human brain and the computer will reach its peak. , the processing power of the computer has caught up with the processing power of the human brain, and has surpassed in some aspects.

Investment in these areas will change the entire market and industry landscape. Going back to the BAT just now, whoever invested the most in this field is likely to be the next leader in this field.

Zhu Yunlai: Internet technology, it should be said that its creative potential is very huge. But from an industry and business perspective, because he's so creative, he has a very low barrier to entry. You can keep innovating, you can keep replicating, and you may be overtaken by new innovations. It may be difficult for General Changsheng to say.

Like I said BAT or AT or T. In the process is competition, and new winners are constantly emerging. From a business point of view, whether your company can finally stand on its feet and finally find a rock, you have yourself that others cannot easily copy, so that your company will find the foundation for long-term development. Of course, this long-term is always relative, and even the best companies in the world will undergo many changes.

Li Xiaojia: I have an opinion and I will not speak, let alone no opinion. BAT, I just said that all three are fat. BAT means bat. Bats are not fat, but they cannot fly when they are fat. Three, I hope they are all fat and become more and more successful. I just hope that when they are fat, they will stay away from the three highs, pay attention to diet, strengthen exercise, and be healthy forever. Thanks!

Liu Erfei: Every high-end forum has a little regret. Today, there are two regrets. First, the three protagonists of BAT are not present. Second, we don't have time for a question and answer session. This kind of regret is also a good thing. Next year, everyone will have the motivation to participate in high-end dialogues again. I hope that in the dialogue next year, Jack Ma will stand here and talk about how to use his wisdom to resolve conflicts with the four major banks in a win-win way. Second, we can check whether the three main founders of BAT are fat, and who is fatter. This year, whether it is reasonable competition or unreasonable competition, vicious competition, what are their results? We look forward to seeing you next year. thank you all!